BrainTrustdv
Published 4/21/09
Interview by Alejandro Adams
http://braintrustdv.com/wordpress/interview-amir-motlagh/
I SEE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT MAKING THREE FEATURES
A YEAR. EVERYBODY WANTS TO WORK AT FASSBINDER’S RATE. WELL, REMEMBER, THE MAN DIED VERY YOUNG…
BUT I CAN SAY THAT THE PRESSURE TO SEEM RELEVANT
HAS INCREASED, AND I FEEL THAT WASTED MOMENTUM
IS DEATH TO THE BRAND.
Amir Motlagh sets out to eradicate “division of labor” filmmaking with whale, an elliptical work pulsing with a restlessness of purpose and vision. Motlagh and his film wear a love-hate relationship with mumblecore on their respective sleeves—a condition which seems, ultimately, inevitable. In the following interview, Motlagh discusses the overwhelming pressures of the Internet and the increasing irrelevance of “ethnic identity” films.
BRAINTRUSTdv
It’s hard to know where to begin talking about this film because it lacks certain elements that one might consider most suitable for discussion. It doesn’t have a conventional plot, conventional characters, conventional character development. But it never feels terribly experimental, probably because you ground many of the scenes in a verité style and you set the film in motion with the aftermath of a break-up, which is a familiar cornerstone for a conventional plot. But after the opening scenes the film trails off in many half-explored directions, growing more diffuse and unfocused. Because the beginning is so concrete, I experience the subsequent drifting as intentional.
Amir Motlagh
The film starts with a conventional protagonist conflict. It’s an immediate inciting event, certainly front-loaded. But you never see the character causing the conflict. There is a somewhat a similar device in John Cassavetes’sHusbands, where the film starts at a funeral. The break-up gives a certain drive, momentum, without which the structural unraveling might be unintentionally diffuse. Also it’s a more conventional “indie” type intro, which creates familiarity. It’s difficult to play with structural elements if you don’t create familiarity. So after the introduction the film morphs into something else, something less concrete, more impressionistic. Cameron, as a writer, is an observant mediator, but he is also central to the other two storylines.
BRAINTRUSTdv
You’ve said that the film is “the middle.” What do you mean by that?
Amir Motlagh
In life’s moments we almost always live in the middle, and closure is a very abstract phenomenon.
BRAINTRUSTdv
You cited Harmony Korine as an influence on whale. I see the connection, though whale is far less preoccupied with transgressiveness and isn’t unsettling.
Amir Motlagh
Korine is less of a direct influence—influence should not equate to mimicry—but most of the transgressiveness lies in how the film is structured.
BRAINTRUSTdv
The film doesn’t really have any conviction when it “plays the race card,” as they say. Cameron has Persian heritage, but he’s as American as his bright yellow truck. A remark here and there might suggest conflictedness about his race or class or culture, but those remarks aren’t really extrapolated into character depth or milked for the usual degree of drama, so ultimately it looks more like sheer non-identity rather than conflictedness. This has overtones of Antonioni—something as vulgar as “drama” would dilute the ennui.
Amir Motlagh
This film is as American in origin as can be, although the presentation might not be so American. I did not want to be stuck in the ghetto of the “ethnic identity” picture. That’s becoming more and more irrelevant as America’s ethnic communities become more homogenized and differences become subtler, but at the same time it would have been a safer, more familiar route to take.
Cameron makes off-hand remarks related to race. He is a product of an Iranian-American diaspora, and, in this instance, perfect assimilation. The Iranians who came to America after the revolution were predominantly middle- to upper-middle-class, educated and Western—Iran was referred to as the France of the Middle East. As a community we tried to assimilate quickly. This has left a large youth population grappling with identity.
All the racial dramatic elements are reflexive, as in Cameron referring to himself as a “sand nigger.” I did a similar thing in Plain Us where the lead, Cy, says the reason his band isn’t going anywhere is because he is brown. But both characters are American first and rooted deeply in West Coast Americana.
BRAINTRUSTdv
If you’d wanted to go the route of total cliché, Cameron would have confrontations with his father instead of a brief, intimate voice-over about how distant he is from his parents.
Amir Motlagh
I shot an additional scene with the parents which might have provided a more elaborate context, but took it out because it halted the narrative drive. That’s one of those editing decisions that haunt you at night.
BRAINTRUSTdv
Whereas most films about an adult returning home concern themselves primarily with the intersecting lives of various family members, in whale the parents are hardly seen, and you seem to suggest that “drifting” is just as much a problem when you’re “back home,” maybe because home isn’t sufficiently “home” for this character.
Amir Motlagh
Your point about drifting is pretty correct. It’s hard for me to elaborate on that, as I feel Cameron ’s main defense might be running. Where is home for this type of character?
BRAINTRUSTdv
You use certain devices once and then move on. This gives the film a restlessness of purpose and vision. The bit that I remember most distinctly is the father character shaving. That sudden acceleration of time after the languorous drifting of the main character provides an effective contrast and a potential conflict—but that conflict remains implicit because we don’t see the father again.
Amir Motlagh
The film utilizes these devices to create a whole image in the end. The conflicts in the film are generally implicit. Many people in my generation are quick to point out inauthenticity. That’s why subtlety and, to a certain extent, minimalism in drama have made a grand return. Maybe Chekhov was onto something?
BRAINTRUSTdv
There is so little existential burden on Cameron that he’s still skateboarding like an adolescent in the days leading up to his ten-year high school reunion. It would be easy to say that these images escalate the feeling that Cameron is drifting and confused to a feeling that he’s just pathetic. It’s a fine line, and one that you’re obviously interested in walking.
Amir Motlagh
Cameron is observant, which makes him somewhat privileged. He is a chameleon. It is easy for him to wander into different groups without much trouble. These characters lie within the middle-class spectrum, some wealthier, some poorer. Two are living with their mothers, and clearly for one character this is an economic necessity. I have often wondered how a “poor” filmmaker would deal with issues of poverty, and if his or her film would look and feel the same as middle-class filmmakers’ making movies about the poor. I approached Cameron with the intention to make his existential dilemma more ambiguous, more convoluted, but not academic. His burdens are minimized because the survival instinct is lessened and the existential questions never equate to life and death. There is a certain carelessness in his behavior.
BRAINTRUSTdv
The dimness of the image throughout pushes the limits of technically “poor” filmmaking. Clearly in some shots it’s just you and a camera—sometimes you’re holding it at arm’s length and “shooting yourself.” I’ve admired that in the work of other digital-era filmmakers, and I admire it in your film too. It exaggerates a certain narcissism that is inherent in making a film at all, and the greater narcissism of putting oneself on screen. Had Welles been able to train a camera on himself, he would have done it without batting an eye. You talk about “division of labor” cinema and how it interferes with the individual filmmaker’s voice. Can you talk about shooting solo and your concept of an adequate crew, and what the crew should provide?
Amir Motlagh
I have utilized a crew of thirty to make a film, and I have utilized just myself. I felt a smaller crew would better serve this film. The division of labor is often a necessity with larger-scale films, especially with more traditional story-based filmmaking. But that forces a paradigm of convention. Your crew is trained for a certain product, and so many compromises have to be made. But when you have a crew of, say, two or one, and more time, you can reach for new things and inherently different things. You can create a different lexicon and the vision ultimately becomes clearer. There is something beautiful in making a film all by your lonesome self. And we are at a point where this has become reasonable, and I’m not talking about Pixelvision, or the avant-garde, I’m talking about a direct form of communication between you and your potential audience, even when dealing with mainstream subject matter or conventions. As far as narcissism goes, that makes sense. Sometimes the most direct path is to look straight through a lens, in the eye of your viewer.
BRAINTRUSTdv
You’ve said you don’t mind if whale is classified as mumblecore “unless it gets [you] nowhere.” While being open to the application of the mumblecore label, you’re obviously positioning certain elements of this film firmly against mumblecore.
Amir Motlagh
My function is filmmaker, and after the product is done someone can call it whatever the fuck they want because I can’t control those elements anymore.
The thing about whale is that, really, I didn’t make the film with my own social circle. The actors in the film are not friends in my immediate circle, although I have grown up with them. The film is a fiction, my life being very separate from the piece itself. None of the amateurs in the film aspire to be actors, make movies, or be connected to the film business.
The more I think about mumblecore, the more I think it never really existed. I made my first film in 2001, Dino Adino, which used some of the same cast as whale. It was shot on DV and cost nothing to make, so was that also mumblecore before the term existed? What about the horde of movies made with some of the same concerns for the last thirty years, including all the punk rock cinema of the 70s? The big problem is that since the term is a popular with the press, low-budget independents will be seen in relation to mumblecore. This could be good or hurtful or entirely a non-issue. Depending on the moods of festival programmers, since they love to get in on new items, it could be feasible that some might be inclined to program your film if they associate it with the newest things. By the same token, a backlash might deem your product useless to them, if only on a superficial level.
Branding’s only use is for something that has really nothing to do with the filmmaking process, which is marketing. My hope is that we return to individualizing filmmakers again and rate the films on their own merits. Maybe this desire for labeling cinema has always been like this, and I am only thinking of it now because of my own immediate predicament, although I think the web speeds the process up. To be honest, I find it harder and harder to remain independent in this climate, where you are compared to something that was, let’s say, made yesterday.
BRAINTRUSTdv
You said the web speeds things up. It’s an obvious remark but the phenomenon itself is worth discussing.
Amir Motlagh
The web speeds up the rate of competition, intertextuality, and “net worth.” I see people talk about making three features a year. Everybody wants to work at Fassbinder’s rate. Well, remember, the man died very young. At first glance, one might assume that this productive output is a result of technology. Fair enough, but I argue that cyberspace technology is really the driving factor. It’s a very similar thing that’s happening to music and to writing. Whereas writing a novel is a long process, the blog is instantaneous, and to keep relevant you have to be in the game. You can’t disappear and reappear on the scene because your net worth drops, and net worth is really another source of brand equity. Now am I equating the digital film to a blog and a 35mm film to a novel? No. I’m just saying that getting a $5,000 film of the ground is much easier than the traditional indie feature from the nineties. Then comes the real question: should we rush to make more film because we can? Maybe Ted Hope is right, in that fewer movies are a better solution. I’m not so sure, but I can say that the pressure to seem relevant has increased, and I feel that wasted momentum is death to the brand. This also causes production budgets to drop, as people are incredibly eager to go into production, without maybe the same ambition and detail there once was, or more specifically, a bigger financial risk. Of course, as it always seems to be the case, this will neutralize as the web becomes better integrated with the process. We are in limbo on so many issues; to think otherwise is just plain escapism.
BRAINTRUSTdv
You’ve said that L.A. doesn’t have a community of independent filmmakers like you’ve seen in New York. How does your isolation affect your working methods and the films themselves?
Amir Motlagh
It’s hard to find the same isolation that was afforded before the web. Now everything is displayed in lightning speeds on the web, and everybody knows what everyone else is doing. The connectivity is good, but is also problematic because of the insular nature of independent film and the interwebs. That’s why we are developing schemas faster then ever, to categorize and reference things that are immediate. To develop, some distance needs to be in place between the community and the individual. That’s why I have been largely absent from the web and in fact enjoyed my residence in Los Angeles. It provides me a sense of solace from continual discussion and also from having to see what all my contemporaries are working on all the time. So in that way, I feel that my concepts are not tainted—a better word might be influenced—to the degree that maybe some New York filmmakers have to deal with. Again, the downside is also taxing. Without a community, who do you look to for career growth, support, education and inspiration? I am coming to the point of having to answer that question. The solace is beginning to bother me, and having been to New York recently for an extended stay, the feeling of community is strong. In Los Angeles, we are dealing with Hollywood, so that trains the soul to react to things under the larger umbrella of the BIZ. Also, it seems like networking these days involves lots of cocaine, which I am not that interested in. Again, I am older than I was yesterday.
BRAINTRUSTdv
The current market for independent films in the U.S. is fractured, and existing distribution models grow more ineffective with each passing moment. What are your hopes or plans for distribution?
Amir Motlagh
I will approach the film festival circuit. Do I really have a choice? If that works out, then we can take it from there. If I have to, I will approach VOD and DVD through my own label. Self-distribution is not something I really have an interest in doing. I’m not trying to prove anything or remark on self-sufficiency, but sometimes we are forced into doing things that fall under a Plan B.
BRAINTRUSTdv
It was recently revealed that video game sales had overtaken DVD sales in 2008. Some see this as the death knell for movies as “physical media.” How do you see the internet vs. physical media issue? No matter how far-fetched, tell us what you see as the ultimate long-term goal for digital video technology in terms of distribution, exhibition, and public reception.
Amir Motlagh
Of course video games have overtaken DVD sales. Video games provide direct involvement, they are not passive. Film viewing, while we might be forced into thinking, is nevertheless a passive art—more so than, say, literature. Internet sales will equal physical media soon enough and will eventually surpass DVD. VOD is the future, no doubt about it, and also media will be easy to download and saved on hard drives connected to our TVs or installed in our DVD players or CPUs for purchasing or individual play. All the major DVD distributors will provide this service. The transmission will all happen from satellites, beamed down into theatrical, home and mobile devices. Physical storage is yesterday’s news. Of course, it’s safer to keep, but there will be backup systems in place for binary archiving in cyber-servers, so that even if your home units fail, someone is banking your data on a secure server somewhere in virtual space. Of course physical media will be available—I mean, how can you deny the pack rat?